Liberty Just in Case

A Dialogue for the September 12th World

Archive for August 17th, 2005

The Legalization of Illicit Drugs – Yes or No (Weekly topic at BoP)

Posted by Mark on August 17, 2005

That was the topic of this week today over at the Balance of Power.

NOTE: Today’s post was written by GTL, who is filling in for Mark who is on vacation and will be back on the 28th.

For those who are unfamiliar with the BoP; it’s a multi-blogger project where a devisive issue is discussed amongst seven different bloggers. The bloggers hail from the left, the right, and libertarian ideologies, and deep respect is ATTEMPTED to be given to opposing points of view. New topics come out every Wednesday, and the discussion continues throughout the week in the comments sections of the posts.

This week’s topic at the BoP is “The Legalization of Illicit Drugs – Yes or No“. As you can imagine, the opinions were pretty strong; this week, coming from right winger Jay, of Stop The ACLU (this week’s host); left-winger, Patricia, of Ancient Eyes for Current Times; myself; and right winger, Zaphriel, of Birth of a NeoCon. There were some strong opinions voiced, as you can imagine; but I must say there are definitely some surprises today. Pay the BoP a visit and weigh in yourself, or you can weigh in by using this comments section, if you’d prefer.

Here’s a preview of the opening paragraph of Jay’s topic:

Recently at my blog I posted on the subject of drug legalization or decriminalization, of which I received much flak from the normally supporting libertarian readers. They viewed this as an issue of liberty. An argument to have the freedom to do whatever one would want to ones own body, much like the argument the left have for abortion. However, I view drug addiction not as liberty, but as a form of slavery, and cannot see how one could equate the avocation of legal drugs with liberty at all.

And here’s a preview of my response to Jay:

Jay, my friend, in my opinion, you deserved the flak from your civil libertarian guests.We spend BILLIONS of dollars chasing after potheads, trying them, and incarcerating them. By FAR the largest percentage of people who are incarcerated for “drug crimes” are there because they were involved with POT, not some other drug that has actually been proven to be dangerous.

Frankly, most people who’ve read my blog know full-well how I feel about the so-called “war on drugs”, which I covered a little more in-depth last month with some actual dollar figures and truths, vs. myths. If you haven’t read it yet, it’s in my July 28th post entitled: The war on pot: is it worth $4 BILLION-PLUS per year to you? Give it a look.

Now, swing into the BoP to read the rest of mine, and Jay’s points of view, as well as the other responses from Zaphriel, and Pat. There ARE some surprises.

Cross-Posted to the Gun-Toting Liberal, and Balance of Power

Posted in War and Terror | Leave a Comment »

The Legalization of Illicit Drugs – Yes or No (Weekly topic at BoP)

Posted by Mark on August 17, 2005

That was the topic of this week today over at the Balance of Power.

NOTE: Today’s post was written by GTL, who is filling in for Mark who is on vacation and will be back on the 28th.

For those who are unfamiliar with the BoP; it’s a multi-blogger project where a devisive issue is discussed amongst seven different bloggers. The bloggers hail from the left, the right, and libertarian ideologies, and deep respect is ATTEMPTED to be given to opposing points of view. New topics come out every Wednesday, and the discussion continues throughout the week in the comments sections of the posts.

This week’s topic at the BoP is “The Legalization of Illicit Drugs – Yes or No“. As you can imagine, the opinions were pretty strong; this week, coming from right winger Jay, of Stop The ACLU (this week’s host); left-winger, Patricia, of Ancient Eyes for Current Times; myself; and right winger, Zaphriel, of Birth of a NeoCon. There were some strong opinions voiced, as you can imagine; but I must say there are definitely some surprises today. Pay the BoP a visit and weigh in yourself, or you can weigh in by using this comments section, if you’d prefer.

Here’s a preview of the opening paragraph of Jay’s topic:

Recently at my blog I posted on the subject of drug legalization or decriminalization, of which I received much flak from the normally supporting libertarian readers. They viewed this as an issue of liberty. An argument to have the freedom to do whatever one would want to ones own body, much like the argument the left have for abortion. However, I view drug addiction not as liberty, but as a form of slavery, and cannot see how one could equate the avocation of legal drugs with liberty at all.

And here’s a preview of my response to Jay:

Jay, my friend, in my opinion, you deserved the flak from your civil libertarian guests.We spend BILLIONS of dollars chasing after potheads, trying them, and incarcerating them. By FAR the largest percentage of people who are incarcerated for “drug crimes” are there because they were involved with POT, not some other drug that has actually been proven to be dangerous.

Frankly, most people who’ve read my blog know full-well how I feel about the so-called “war on drugs”, which I covered a little more in-depth last month with some actual dollar figures and truths, vs. myths. If you haven’t read it yet, it’s in my July 28th post entitled: The war on pot: is it worth $4 BILLION-PLUS per year to you? Give it a look.

Now, swing into the BoP to read the rest of mine, and Jay’s points of view, as well as the other responses from Zaphriel, and Pat. There ARE some surprises.

Cross-Posted to the Gun-Toting Liberal, and Balance of Power

Posted in Uncategorized | Leave a Comment »

Oh yeah, THAT’S IT – let’s just tag little babies as terrorists and prevent them from boarding planes thanks to secret Government "no-fly" list

Posted by Mark on August 17, 2005

Babies Caught Up in ‘No-Fly’ Confusion
By LESLIE MILLER, Associated Press Writer (source: Yahoo News)

NOTE: Today’s post was written by GTL, who is filling in for Mark who is on vacation and will be back on the 28th.

Hey, it’s good to see we’re not allowing *some* “evil baby terrorists” to board our planes. Way to go, TSA; that’s keeping our friendly skies safe!

“… WASHINGTON – Infants have been stopped from boarding planes at airports throughout the U.S. because their names are the same as or similar to those of possible terrorists on the government’s “no-fly list.”

It sounds like a joke, but it’s not funny to parents who miss flights while scrambling to have babies’ passports and other documents faxed.

Ingrid Sanden’s 1-year-old daughter was stopped in Phoenix before boarding a flight home to Washington at Thanksgiving. …”

Do you ever wonder if perhaps YOU are on this secret, Government “no-fly” list of over 100,000 Americans? How would you know? Other than trying to fly in peace just to be stopped, you wouldn’t know. How would you get on this list? You would hope it would be pretty tough to do so, but let’s face it; 100,000-PLUS Americans is a lot of names per capita. Can you end up on the list because you write a blog that disagrees with some donut munching G-man’s own political viewpoints? Because you staunchly defend the 1st, and/or 2nd Amendments? Dislike the USA Patriot Act, or RealID? Again, who knows how you get on the damned thing?

But I do know THIS. I know that no matter how many times I read the Constitution, I just cannot find a single loophole for the Government to just slap my, or your names onto some list that prohibits our rights to travel freely, ESPECIALLY within our nation, but they do indeed do just that when they invent little “lists” like these. It truly sounds like the kind of thing that our Forefathers fled far away from to me.

Again, before you disagree with me on this, how do you know YOU are not on this list? You might very well be on it, so don’t be so sure of yourself.

Cross-Posted to Gun-Toting Liberal

Posted in War and Terror | Leave a Comment »

The Balance of Power – Drugs

Posted by zaphriel on August 17, 2005

The Balance of Power is at it again, we have started posting on Wednesdays, so everybody has a chance to get involved. Comments and discussion are encouraged (In fact they are most of what the posts are about). This week we are tackling the Drug Issue. Here’s what I had to say.

Before I start, I want to say that I have never done any illicit drugs what-so-ever in my life. In fact while I was growing up I was a very active member of the Friend to Friend/Youth to Youth organization. As a matter of fact my senior year in high school I was the regional director for the San Gabriel Valley USD Counter Drug Task Force. I continue to this day to be involved in state and national counter drug missions both domestically and abroad.

From what I have seen, balanced with what I believe in, I think that the legalization of most illicit drugs would always be a mistake. There is only one drug that is currently illegal that I would support being legalized and treated that same as alcohol and tobacco, and that would be Marijuana. Studies have shown, paired with my own experience, that Pot is no more addictive or destructive than is alcohol, and spending millions of dollars to fight a weed is just stupid. Now that being said.

I am against all other illicit drugs being legalized, for one simple reason, hard core illicit drugs, such as Crystal Meth, Speed, and Crack, can and do kill on the very first try. There is nothing through regulation or any other type of control, which can change that about these drugs. They are lethal and HIGHLY addictive. I have seen PhD’s become homeless crack heads after just one hit (so to speak), because they could not stop. I have seen upstanding people become criminals over night, because the addiction was so strong and over-ruling. There is no benefit that can come to our society through their legalization.

It would be better to legalize pot, regulate it and tax it, and use that money for drug treatment facilities. This would decriminalize an otherwise mundane drug, and lower our crime rate. Legalizing the other drugs however would have the opposite effect. We would see a sharp rise in addiction and addiction related crimes. People would be apt to “experiment” more often because it is legal, and end up dead or severely addicted. This would lead to problems that would plague us for decades. We can never let this happen.

Zaphriel – Birth of a Neocon

Did that peak your interest? Well then, go see what that was all about, and what the others had to say.

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